Om Malik launched a job board today. I first found out about this when I called Om a few weeks ago to tell him we were launching the CrunchBoard job board. Om congratulated me, and said he’d cover it, but I could just tell by the way he spoke to me that he had something cooking, too. A few phone calls later and it was confirmed.
One thing we want to do with CrunchBoard is create a decentralized job board for tech. Right now it’s completely centralized, other than the fact that RSS feeds are available if people want to read them in a feed reader or re-post them on a website (like we do on CrunchGear and TechCrunch UK).
I didn’t want it to be centralized, though. The first thing we did when we decided to start building CrunchBoard was ping Jason Fried at 37 Signals to talk to him about partnering with their job board. I imagined an API for entering jobs, and an API for outputting jobs, that could be displayed anywhere. Jason didn’t want to partner beyond having me post his listing on TechCrunch, so we built our own.
When I realized Om was building yet another job board I told him flat out I wanted to partner with him, offering to make CrunchBoard a new company and splitting equity with him 50/50. Hell, we could even rename it to something more neutral. Given that TechCrunch has more traffic than GigaOm right now, and that we had already built and launched the board, I thought that was a fair offer.
Om passed on my proposal, and I’m sure he has his reasons. But in my mind, this is all a very web 1.0 way of thinking. I don’t want to have my own garden, a sort of mini monster.com. I want to be a part of an ecosystem. There’s no way we can compete with the big job boards fighting individual battles. We need to partner, create a distributed system, and win virally.
To start, I think we should create a single widget that shows all of the jobs listed by 37 Signals, Om and CrunchBoard. That’s the right thing to do for the companies. We also need to allow other websites to join the network and get a fair revenue split (read: large majority) for bringing listings or potential employees to the service.
Job boards are trivially easy to build. The hard part is the network effect. Just as blogs are ripping apart big media, a decentralized approach to job listings and other businesses can win, too.
I’m in. Who’s with me?
Wasn’t this called Edgeio?
Widget for all the listings: http://sandbox.sourcelabs.com/bozpage/?hy2
I think you are on the right track with this one. We made some suggestions in an earlier post on our blog, when we posted about ProBlogger’s new Job Board. I think a decentralized system is going to be key, as well as making sure that employers are getting real good candidates through the system. Right now, I know that most employers that I have talked to have not had much success with any of these new job boards, this decentralization and widgetization might do the trick. Also new services like BuildV1.com are popping up that aim to bring people together as well. Things will get interesting in this space, but something innovative needs to be done and decentralization is definately a smart way to go about it once more people start playing ball.
Mike.
I’m in, I was just thinking about this 5 minutes before i saw this post. Email me.
I came here from Om’s post about starting a job board, a post that had me laughing and shaking my head. Advertising and various gimmicks like job boards are only temporary and ultimately silly solutions for the question of how to fund online content: the answer is micropayments.
Mike,
I’d posted this as a comment to your post related to the Crunchboard launch on TC.
Considering the popularity of TechCrunch and its highly targeted audience, you should probably also start a service where other successful entrepreneurs would be willing to mentor others.
I am pretty sure that there will be others like me, who would pay for such a mentoring service.
Another thought: Probably provide a forum where I can connect with others and possibly find a suitable partner for my entrepreneurial venture ?
just some random ideas / thoughts that came to mind.
thanks
I agree with all that you said, and by saying this publicly you virtually assure that your idea will gain traction. Who knows, it could even influence the silo companies into becoming platform companies.
Anyway, I’m interested in designing an API for you. I have some experience in this area.
The aggregator / decentralized route is definitely the way to go Michael.
In the UK it comes in the shape of Chinwag Jobs which launched recently, except that it’s for the whole new media industry (well, we are smaller) but
with tags and other evolving 2.0 features, etc.
I guess a US equivalent or somesuch will emerge eventually. Hard to believe the UK’s a wee bit
ahead for once! (apart from in the mobile sector of course)
As for widgetization as Hiten mentions – now that could be HUGE… hope Ivan Pope picks up on that one!
What made Monster such a resounding success was that an online job board had never been done well before – and Monster killed it. Sure, it’s a walled garden, but given the marketplace Monster was launched into, that didn’t matter.
No longer. Data, especially stuff like jobs, needs to be de-centralized if it’s to be any real value to job seekers.
Having to sift through multiple sites like CrunchBoard, GigaOM and 37signals (and its brethren), plus all of the other start-ups, is a huge pain. And a mess. And so very backwards.
I think it is a cool idea.
How could we addapt that to be a little more user specific. … For example, I want to build a job board for everyone that graduated from Fallbrook H.S. (http://www.classannual.com/) so that the alumni could support their friends first, then others second. … Sort of a social relevance added to qualifications.
Jack
Before designing anything new, please take a look at the work that has already been done. Some links for starters:
hResume microformat
RDF Schema for resumes
Niall Kennedy has done his own resume in Atom
Personally I’d opt for the best of all these – use the RDF model to enable tagging, social networking, etc, with an implementation based on a triple store. Data could be primarily be passed from site to site via the Atom Publishing Protocol, its symmetry suits a job like this. For user interface, the same data could be presented in hResume, allowing other microformat-savvy tools (including browsers!) to GET the information.
TechCrunch is a niche social network waiting to happen…
I think OM launching his job board is a good thing for Monster, Craigslist and everyone else. It really hurts you, OM and 37signals. There is no differentiation among the products, people are going to be torn on which one to post and it will spread out the market. I think consolidating it into one would be a very powerful force.
Have you talked with Mark from Good Experience on partnering?
‘To start, I think we should create a single widget that shows all of the jobs listed by 37 Signals, Om and CrunchBoard. That’s the right thing to do for the companies. … we should turn this into a stand alone company and split up equity. We also need to allow other websites to join the network and get a fair revenue split (read: large majority) for bringing listings or potential employees to the service.’
It certainly cries out for a widget that can self-distribute. But why stop at revenue split? Who decides that the first three parts of the network own the equity? Why not create a widget that carries equity as an incentive to install? A widget that allows any network, large or small, to buy in to ownership by carrying the widget?
I kinda agree with you Mike. But then again the fact that each blog has a niche group of readers also makes that valuable. By partnering I know you may not actually mean sharing the job listings but if you did and then you suddenly have huge numbers of jobs then you basically become a board like Monster. There is no other reason to go to Monster than to look for a job. But the fact is that advertisers aren’t as interested in people looking for jobs as they are in people who have certain skills and interests. It’s one of the reason’s I like 37Signals board, because the focus on their reader’s niche. It has real value for the advertiser, and real value for the job-seeker in that niche. If the board is suddenly filled with a bunch of irrelevant jobs then people switch off and the advertiser gets less value.
We are building a job board into the new radrails.org. It will be specifically for Rails/Eclipse job postings but I am always open to an API. I also have experience in this area and am willing to collaborate. I think these job boards are working on a micro-community level but could benefit where there is overlap. Mike, contact me if you want to talk more about this.
Obliquely related discussion on Vitamin about mircroformats which could be used for job boards.
http://www.thinkvitamin.com/features/design/how-to-use-microformats
Mike,
I am in. I have a tech company but no job board. I would build a job board if I had some available programmers. Kind of a catch22. I like the idea of having my own job board. Is it wrong to grab all the good programmers first? Seriously I would love to talk.
If we could hammer out a smart revenue sharing system for job sources and the sites that list the jobs, STIRR is happy to discuss (we’re launching our talent board shortly). Google has proven pay for performance is a killer model, it could be applied to job listings as well.
mike = think different:)
37s are just a cult…all words, no action.
I think websites like jobster, simplyhired, and indeed do it for me, however, if gigaom and 37 signals would not partner with you, than more power to you techcrunch, because you are definately the leader of tech startup news.
You definately could add a little more functionality to crunchboard.
We’re got a niche job site for developers looking for work in Django.
It’s been around for 3-4 months now.
I don’t mind opening up the API.. (it has RSS feeds now) but I’m not sure how what you are planning is different than what indeed.com are doing.
regards
Ian
you are so on it mike.
Sadly, I think that due to the nature of these job boards (and the purpose they serve the people hosting them), that collaboration and an open API are very unlikely. My thoughts are here:
http://www.martingordon.org/blog/2006/08/25/job-boards-and-the-quest-for-open-standards/
I propose a similar solution to what Dave Winer is doing with mobile newsriver. Have a job-listing mash-up site that takes the RSS feeds from both Crunch and Om as well as any other smaller job-listing sites.
Of course, this doesn’t support the ability to get the jobs listed. So, after Crunch builds the job-posting API and that is implemented into the mash-up site, I’m sure the other involved job-posting sites will come on board. Sounds like a cool solution to me and I’m sure monetary arrangements could be profitable for all involved.
Wish I had some time to build the initial mash-up. Wouldn’t be hard and would be fun. Anyone willing to split the work? Hit my blog. Then again, I just laid out my whole plan
Yours for the taking.
Mike – indeed, an interesting idea. However, does the Web 1.0 vs. Web 2.0 distinction refer to people’s desire for personal success? If you are expecting others to give up what they may envision as a mini-monopoly, or potentially large brand they they own 100% and can get the notoriety for 100%, then that may be asking a lot. In my opinion greed is one factor that created the last bubble (and burst it), and that as Gordon Gekko refers, it is just part of human nature. There seems to be quite a number of people becoming mini-celebrities around here, and I would imagine that while you are truly all helping each other (and the industry) grow, there must be some level of competition for some people. If things turn south a bit in the tech world, there may be a land grab. That said – your idea makes a lot of sense, and it would be great to see it happen. However, I am also not surprised if other people/companies try to do it on their own. Thanks!
When you launched CrunchBoards I imediately realized there was something in aggregating job boards – knowing that there was already the 37Signals and expecting there to be a few more.
Now we have Om’s too, and I don’t think we’ve seen the last of them either.
So I’ve started spending some time thinking about this and… well I’ve just scratched a paragraph or so as I think I’ll keep my cards a little close to my chest for the time being!
The point is that I do think that the long term success of these boards — in their current state — is potentially questionable. The idea certainly doesn’t scale and could get to a point where you have too many jobs coming in and it makes far better sense to create a more ‘traditional job site’.
That’s fine for you and Om and you can adapt your propositions accordingly – I don’t think it means you loose your marketshare it just means you have to change the way the websites work.
Point is, the minute you guys ‘go large’ and create proper job networks is when these aggregation ideas potentially fall down. In otherwords, does the aggregation scale to same degree as the job board websites… I’m not sure.
But it will be fun to run, if only for 12 months or so.
What are the rights on the job feeds? Are you doing anything to explicitly greenlight people aggregating them?
Mike you’re so full of shit, and everyone who agrees with him, get your heads out of your asses. I can very quickly prove why Mike’s comments are based out of fear of losing out to Om, not out of a need for more decentralization and openness (Mike’s blog attracts wannabees, developers and dreamers, people without enough practicle experience to know that all Techcrunch profiles are features, not companies (Renkoo anyone?) Om’s attracts serious businesspeople with down to earth journalism grounded in thorough analysis. Who do you think will win when the bubble bursts? I think Om’s job board is a great idea, and his decision not to partner with Techcrunch is smart. In a couple of years techcrunch = sockpuppet.
So here’s the test – anyone out there with your own blog, put up a job site and ask to partner with Mike – I mean partner to split the revenue/profits from whatever the combined job board makes. See how fast Mike responds.
Don’t hold your breath.
Each site has their own core user base and any advertisements within are best when aimed for that audience. 37signals attracts Ruby developers, GigaOm attracts telecom types, and TechCrunch might attract JavaScript coders.
The success of each relies on the quality of the leads, not just the placement of a single listing. Each site should command a premium in their specialties, and over time the CPL/CPA will be evaluated for each.
Since all three companies target startups you provide value by providing the signal to noise that Monster cannot.
Mike,
I’m certainly no great evangelist, but this is the basic goal of http://freecruiter.org – the open job directory. And it has an API.
An open OPML listing of job feeds. I can’t explain it all here. Email me.
I think what you are describing is the goal of the Structured Blogging initiative – http://structuredblogging.org/ , though I’m not totally up on what it going on with that organization. When I first heard about it, the example that was given to me was around job listings.
Have you considered partnering with one of the job search engines: Indeed, SimplyHired, or Jobster. Indeed is powering Gawker jobs: http://www.gawker.com/jobs/. It would seem like you could do something similar.
Mike, this is an issue we’re thinking about carefully at Seeking Alpha, because we’re the fastest growing stock-market website and we’re heavily read by investment professionals, so job listings are a natural fit. I’ve written an article with a wish-list of the product we’re looking for; let me know whether this is consistent with your proposal.
http://internet.seekingalpha.com/article/16031
Our take if you’re interested.
I’m in. We can handle the design folks…
You cannot simply break the barrier by climbing over barrier. Its too hard. You have however take pieces of the barrier away ( erroding the barrier ) and that’s what the Jason’s point is.
hi Michael
JobThread already has a turnkey platform to power job boards for niche publishers, organizations and groups. Below are a few of the larger sites that recently launched a board using JobThread:
Salon (http://jobs.salon.com)
TreeHugger (http://jobs.treehugger.com)
alarm:clock, tech:gigger (http://jobs.techgigger.com)
And here’s an example of a professional organization:
nextNY (http://nextny.jobthread.com)
Would love to chat if you think there’s a way to work together.
very best,
eric
Eric Yoon, JobThread, Inc.
eric@jobthread.com
http://www.JobThread.com
Mike,
I’m in. It’s very doable with both social networking and changing the rules in your favor. Email me for details on an Open Talent plan that blows the doors off every job board idea.
Irwin
Hey y’all
I’m new here. What does it mean to have a “decentralized” job board and why is it such a good idea?
Janet
Before you guys can get your act together.. the geek job aggregator is already hot in action
http://www.webjobby.com/
Hello Michael,
Interesting idea. It’s one we’ve thought about, but the commercial realities of making a distributed jobs system are fairly thorny. Technically speaking, it’s pretty straightforward and we’d be up for a chat on how it might work.
Commercially however, ownership, revenue splits, and who-does-what can become a headache. It’s all solvable, but it’s worth considering whether it’s worth the effort of solving. Is each site’s niche audience best served by it’s own jobs board?
Perhaps, a better solution would be an API where jobs boards ‘could’ grab vacancies that were suitable for their specific audience e.g. based on skills, ratings, tags, keywords, etc?
Toodle Pip
Sam
Hey Hitchhiker – I put this on your site but thought it worth re-doing here:
Well, I have to have a bit of a giggle to myself over this one. Wow – the things one can dream up in the absense of hard facts.
Bottom line – edgeio is alive and well. We might well reach our first 1 million listings this week (not bad for 23 weeks of operations). The daily average per month has risen from less than 1000 in May to more than 8000 today. We have listings from over 12500 cities, from 130 cities. Try changing your edgeio city to Shaghai and check out the Chinese listings. We are in the top 3 listings sites in China already.
And then there is Mike. Mike is a board director at edgeio. He is a great assett, a friend and advisor. But he has never been operational in edgeio. So no change there. The blogosphere described edgeio as “Mike Arrington’s startup” but Mike himself has never obscured his role as co-founder and board member.
Mike started TechCrunch (disclosure I am a shareholder) over 12 months ago. edgeio launched in March (6 months ago). Mike was always co-founder and board member and I was the founder/ceo. Really, the only change is that the world is now more aware of the reality. And our investors – all know the facts and have seen no change since day 1, apart from our growth as a global aggregator and distributor of listings.
So … Sorry to dissapoint. The truth is really way more boring than the dream.
On Crunchboard – edgeio does indeed aggregate it’s listings. Check them out here: http://www.edgeio.com/site/32168725
.
Again sorry to disappoint.
You are right on 1 thing. edgeio can aggregate Mike and Om’s listings today. All they need to do is tag everything “listing”, agree on a common tag (say “web2.0 jobs”) and their own tags (say “crunchboard” and “gigajobs”), and anybody could take a feed from edgeio for either one or both just by selecting the tag or tags. It’s that easy. But Mike is right – both parties have to want to do it. edgeio aggregates listings from willing publishers and distributes them to willing publishers. All that is needed is the will. Mike is also right that having edgeio aggregate is only part of the solution. Both sites would need to provide a common listing interface allowing each to charge for it’s own listings and those of the other, and agree to share revenue. edgeio will have products later this year making this possible.
Oh and on raising money .. remember edgeio raised $1.5m in December. We have 7 employees. So no need to raise $ now. We are already earning revenue and will announce our next round when it’s the right time. Trust me, it is not a hard sell given our progress.
Hitchhiker, I know you intended no harm with your piece and I hope this clears things up.
Best regards
Keith Teare
ceo/founder/edgeio